刘大使：请不要忘记，中国是一个大国。中国的面积是英国的40倍，人口是英国的20倍。而中国的人均军费仅是美国的二十二分之一，是英国的九分之一。而且中国军费占GDP的比例逐年下降，今年是过去5年来最低的。正如你所知，中国有辽阔的国土需要保卫，此外，中国军队承担着多重任务。

　　Peston: I think it's the share of the GDP that's actually gone up a bit, given the rapid growth ofthe economy. But you talk about obviously your desire of stability. What do you think when youhear the leading Republican Presidential Candidate Donald Tramp talking about how he thinksthat Chinese want Americans to starve?

　　佩斯顿：考虑到当前中国经济的增长速度，我认为中国军费占GDP的比例事实上略有上升。你谈到中国要维护稳定，美国共和党总统参选人特朗普说中国人想要饿死美国人，你对此有何评论?

　　Ambassador Liu: I don't think it represents the majority view in United States. You know, youalways have some voice, but I don't think….

　　刘大使：我不认为他此番言论代表美国主流民意。

　　Peston: But if he became president, how serious would that be?

　　佩斯顿：但如果特朗普当选美国总统呢?你认为这种可能性有多大?

　　Ambassador Liu: I think it's a very hypothetic question. I do not know how you would answerthat. But I certainly will not answer this hypothetic question. But I can assure you that we want tohave good relations with United States. And you mention in your film before this interview, thatChina wants to challenge the dominance of the United States, and even want to challenge the USleadership. That is not our position, not our intention at all. I think in China, we have a lot ofchallenges to deal with in our domestic development, and we have no intention to challenge USdominance. And we believe that the US and China should be good partners in the Asia-Pacificregion.

　　刘大使：这是一个假设性的问题，我不知道你会怎么回答假设性的问题，我是不会回答假设性问题的。但我可以肯定地告诉你，中国愿意和美国建立良好关系。在访谈开始前播出的节目中，你说中国想挑战美国的主导地位，甚至挑战美国的世界领导地位。这不是中国的立场，我们无意这么做。中国在实现自身发展方面已经面临足够多的挑战，我们无意去挑战美国的主导地位。我认为中美在亚太地区应该成为好伙伴。

　　Peston: Now is this display of military strength a distraction from the slowdown in the Chineseeconomy which many economists think is quite serious?

　　佩斯顿：中国举行阅兵式是为了展示军力，转移人们对中国经济下滑的注意力吗?很多经济学家认为中国经济面临严重问题。

　　Ambassador Liu: I think China's economic difficulties have been exaggerated by Westernobservers. I think we have some difficulty, challenges, that's for sure. But they are the naturaloutcome…

　　刘大使：我认为西方观察家们夸大了中国经济面临的困难。中国经济确实面临一些困难，这在中国发展过程中是正常的。

　　Peston: Five trillion dollars lost of the Chinese stock market. Is that trivial?

　　佩斯顿：中国股市市值蒸发了5万亿美元，这是小数目吗?

　　Ambassador Liu: No. I think stock market has its own rule of game. You know goes up anddowns, like in the United States, in stock market. We have to focus on the big picture of China. Ithink the basics and fundamentals of the Chinese economy still good and sound. We achieved 7%increase for the first half of this year. That 7% increase is about the same size of the total GDP ofthis 20th largest economy of Switzerland.

　　刘大使：我认为股市有其自身的运行规律。股市有起有伏，美国股市也是如此。我们要看中国经济的全貌。中国经济的基本面是好的。今年上半年中国GDP增长了7%，增量相当于世界第20大经济体瑞士的GDP总量。

　　Peston: And very briefly, your president has said he wants modernized economy and see marketsliberalized. A really important part of free markets is that people should be free to say whateverthey like about those markets. Now journalists, hedge firm manager have been arrested forallegedly scaremongering about the stock market. To us in the west, that is very shocking.

　　佩斯顿：主席表示希望使中国经济更加现代化，使市场更加自由化。自由市场的一个重要组成部分就是，人民应该能自由地表达对市场的意见。而在中国，一些记者和基金经理因为涉嫌制造股市恐慌被逮捕。这对西方人来说是十分令人震惊的。

　　Ambassador Liu: I think Chinese people enjoy, you know, freedom of speech. The cases youhave mentioned are those who involve in violation of law. You know, China is a country ruled bylaw. And…

　　刘大使：中国人民享有言论自由。在你所说的案件中，那些人违反了法律。中国是法治国家。

　　Peston: But I said much scarier thing about British markets than they said about Chinese market.Do you think the British Government should arrest me?

　　佩斯顿：我说过关于英国市场很可怕的话，比那些人说中国市场的话要可怕得多。你觉得英国政府应该逮捕我吗?

　　Ambassador Liu: No. It's not only about the mad comment about the market. It's also about,you know, making…sending the rumors, causing disturbances in the market. And you know,Chinaand Britain are run by different rules of game. And maybe in some of the cases in Britain, it's not aviolation of criminal law. But in China, you know, it constitutes a wrong-doings. So they have tobe held accountable for their wrong-doings.

　　刘大使：那些人不仅仅是发表评论。他们制造谣言，引起市场恐慌。中英两国国情不同，法律制度也不尽相同。一些行为在英国可能不违法，而在中国则不同，如果违法，就要受到惩处。

　　Peston: Ambassador, many thanks!

　　佩斯顿：非常感谢，大使先生。

　　Ambassador Liu: Thank you for having me.

　　刘大使：谢谢。

　　Newsnight is a popular BBC 2 current affairs programme which specialises in indepth analysis androbust cross-examination of senior politicians. Robert Peston has been the Economics Editor forBBC since 2013.

　　“新闻之夜”是英国BBC电视二台知名时政类访谈节目，以深度分析和激烈辩论著称，在英政界和知识界影响较大，全球受众广泛，英国及世界政要和精英经常接受该节目专访。主持人佩斯顿2013年任BBC经济主编至今。

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（编辑：何莹莹）